Issue name: 103-Various

Various concerns, especially with social meaning

Raised by:
Peter F. Patel-Schneider
Raised on:
2002-12-26
Raised in message:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2002OctDec/0297.html
Target document section reference(s):
http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/RDFCore/TR/WD-rdf-concepts-20030117/
Status:
Raised
Last updated:
2002-12-26
Owner:
Unassigned

Details

Resource Description Framework (RDF): Concepts and Abstract Syntax
Editors' Working Draft 12 December 2002

The notion of what is and what is not normative in this document is very
poorly specified.  I have been told several times that the definition of an
RDF graph in the document is normative, but yet this section is not marked
as being normative.  I suggest that each section of the document be clearly
marked as normative or non-normative.  The document contains quite a number
of errors and misleading pieces that need to be fixed.  It also contradicts
itself in a number of places.

Abstract

I seem to remember learning that ``This document'', etc., are not to be
used in an abstract.  I only mention this here because the abstract is
otherwise so good, being concise and to the point.  Its only other flaw is
the superfluous paragraph division.  After the excellent abstract, however,
this document commits the cardinal sin of repeating the abstract at the
beginning of the document itself.

Section 1:

After the excellent abstract, however, this document commits the cardinal
sin of repeating the abstract at the beginning of the document itself.   If
you say the same thing twice, you should at least have the decency to say
it in different words.

Just what is the RDF core?  Is there something else to RDF besides the
core?  If so, what, and which W3C documents address it?  If I was going by
the document list, I would be forced to conclude that the semantics for
RDFS were in the core, but RDFS itself was not - a very strange state of
affairs.  RDF datatyping would fall within the core, which is again strange
because it depends on RDFS.

I would be careful to spell out RDF wherever it is referred to, and avoid
short forms such as ``the formalism''.  The notion of layering here is also
very strange.  There is a distinct difference between the relationship
between RDF and DC and RDF and OWL.

Section 2:

This section starts out with a very clear definition of RDF:   ``RDF has an
abstract syntax that reflects a simple graph-based data model, and formal
semantics with a rigorously defined notion of entailment providing a basis
for well founded deductions in RDF data.''  If only the RDF documents
actually followed this definition of RDF, instead of swerving out to
include ``intended meaning'', ``social meaning'', and the like.

The list of uses in the motivations section has just about the best example
of non-parallel construction that I have ever seen.  The list of design
goals is, however, a very close second.  It wouldn't take much effort to
make these lists infinitely more readable.

In the list of goals, there is, again, the statement that RDF is supposed
to be able to support assertions about anything.  This goal runs counter to
several efforts to restrict the ability to state assertions about
particular resources.  The list of goals also has the very strange goal
that RDF is supposed to be a basis for legally binding agreements.  What
part of RDF is going to be able to support this goal?

Why not give up on the term ``data model''?  It just causes confusion when
compared to model theory.

Why are literals in RDF if  ``URI references are used for naming all kinds
of things in RDF''?

Inconsistency is a technical term.  It would be best not to use it in
informal settings, instead talking about false or incorrect statements.  As
RDF has only a very limited notion of inconsistency, and then only with
respect to datatypes, it is misleading to say that applications build upon
RDF have to be able to deal with conflicting information.

Why not give a quick glimpse of what a simple fact is here instead of using
a bare forward reference?


Section 3:

Are the concepts in Section 3 supposed to be exhaustive in some sense?  It
almost seems as if they should be, yet there is no indication of whether
this is the case.

The RDF Primer says that RDF graphs are labeled directed graphs.  This
document says that the ``underlying structure of any expression in RDF can
be viewed as a directed labeled graph''.  Neither is correct because RDF
graphs are not really labeled directed graphs as they are usually defined,
but one would think that at least the same term could be used.

Just what is an RDF graph?  As this is supposed to be the normative
definition of an RDF graph, one would think that an absolutely correct
definition would be given here.  However, instead one finds that an RDF
graph is a set of triples, followed by a diagram that doesn't look like a
triple, followed by a quasi-definition of  something called a ``property
arc'', followed by the claim that an RDF graph contains statements.
Something infinitely better is needed here.

The next section talks about the nodes and arcs of an RDF graph.  However,
an RDF graph contains either triples or statements, neither of which are
known to have nodes or arcs.  This section of the document also talks about
the abstract syntax for RDF, which deserves considerable explanation here,
but is not even linked to the appropriate section of the document.

The datatype section is explicitly tagged as being normative yet it does
not specify which XML Schema datatypes are unsuitable for use with RDF,
merely mentioning one that is unsuitable.  Similarly, the section mentions
that XML Schema Datatypes provides an extensibility framework without
specifying how such datatypes can be referenced and there are known
problems here.   (This is particularly frustrating from my view as I just
went through this exercise with respect to OWL.)

The section on literals makes the claim that anything that can be
represented by a literal can be represented by a URI reference.  This claim
deserves some support, and support based on the RDF model theory.

The RDF model theory does not make recommendations.  Instead, it states
what RDF means in a formal sense.  This is not a recommendation, even if
one considers W3C standards as recommendations.

A two-place predicate is not a simple fact.  In fact, it is not a fact at
all!  A ground atomic term consisting of a two-place predicate and two
argument terms might be considered as a simple fact as can be represented
in RDF, but not the predicate itself.

RDF really only has the power to represent the binary
existential-conjunctive fragment of predicate calculus.  The
existential-conjunctive fragment of first-order logic includes non-binary
predicates, which can only be encoded in RDF, and functions, which cannot
even be encoded in RDF.

The document earlier makes the statement that RDF is supposed to be able to
support assertions about anything.  It now goes on to contradict that
statement, saying that ``[c]ertain URIs are reserved for use by RDF, and
may not be used for any purpose not sanctioned the RDF specifications''.
These cannot both be true.  This section also implicitly makes the claim
that RDF Schema is part of the RDF core, contradicting an earlier claim to
the contrary.

Section 4:

What is the ``social meaning'' of RDF?  Does it have any relationship to
how an RDF application should act?  If so, what is this relationship and
how can it be conveyed to an application?  If not, what business does this
have in a document about RDF?

How does an RDF expression get to be asserted?  What syntax can I use to
assert RDF expressions, or to prevent their assertion?  Can I use this
notion in OWL?  If not, then what good is it?  Without any method given for
asserting an RDF expression or graph, what good is a paragraph that starts
``When an RDF graph is asserted in the Web''?

Maybe this section on social meaning has a place in some commentary on the
use of RDF, but it certainly doesn't have any place here.

The idea that RDF graphs contain ``defining information'' that is opaque to
logical reasoners is ludicrous.  An RDF graph is simply a set of RDF
triples.   It is certainly possible that there can be communities that have
intended meanings for these RDF graphs, but these intended meanings are
external to the RDF graph, and, indeed, external to RDF as a whole, and
thus have no place in a normative part of a document about RDF.

What social conventions surround the use of RDF?  Even if there were some,
why should they make their way into a normative section of an RDF document?
The idea that some owner of a URI reference can control the use of that URI
reference goes counter to the bedrock goal that RDF allows one to say
anything about anything.   The RDF model theory contains no hint that any
of these sorts of restrictions are possible.

This section further reinforces this point when it says that any document
found by dereferencing a URI reference has no impact on RDF.

The example brings forward these problems.  The document at
http://skunk.example.org/ does not entail anything derogatory about
C:JohnSmith, which is reinforced in the section just above.  This being the
case, there is no reason for any notion related to RDF to bring this
forward.

If, however, the opposite was the case then there would be no way for any
organization to deploy any RDF-based application.   Such applications would
not be able to understand the social meaning of the RDF they created or
manipulated, and thus could easily create documents holding the
organization liable for just about any imaginable consequence.  In this
case I would have no choice but to tell Lucent Technologies not to deploy
any RDF applications.

Section 6:

Just what is an RDF graph?  Earlier it was the Graph Data Model and now it
is the RDF abstract syntax.  I really do expect a much higher level of
internal consistency here.  The definition of RDF triple is not much better
here than before.

Two graphs are RDF equal iff they are the same.  It would be much better to
call the relationship defined here equivalence, or, even better,
isomorphism.

The treatment of typed literals here does not match that given in the RDF
model theory.  In particular, there is no provision for the special
treatment of rfd:XMLLiteral there.

History

2002-12-26: Raised

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2002OctDec/0297.html

Various points raised. Most fundamentally, concerns with the handling of social (intended) meaning and use of RDF.

Some confusion arounf normative vs non-normative content.

Not clear about XML schema datatypes to be supported.

Some problems of consistency with other documents.

A number of points of terminology, and editorial matters.

2003-01-17: Comment

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jan/0275.html

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jan/0277.html

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jan/0278.html

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jan/0285.html

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Jan/0286.html

See also this thread from the WebOnt discussion list.

2003-02-05: FollowUp

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0192.html

Further comments to RDF-comments.