Issue name: 111-Various

RDF core, database example, soc-entailment

Raised by:
Ossi Nykanen
Raised on:
2003-01-31
Raised in message:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0166.html
Target document section reference(s):
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-rdf-concepts-20030123/#section-Introduction
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-rdf-concepts-20030123/#section-Interaction
http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-rdf-concepts-20030123/#section-SimpleFacts
Status:
Raised
Last updated:
2003-01-31
Owner:
Graham Klyne

Details

I have few remarks concerning the RDF specifications (LCWGs).

Outline:

#1. RDF-CONSEPTS: The term RDF core is used vaguely (e.g. in sect 1).
#2. RDF-CONSEPTS: Example in 3.5 fails to model an actual database?
#3. RDF-CONSEPTS: Characterisation on 4.4 about the social meaning of RDF
entailments is too strong to be acceptable.
[...]

Here are the full comments:

#1.) In document Resource Description Framework (RDF):
Concepts and Abstract Syntax
(http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-rdf-concepts-20030123/) the introduction
uses the term "RDF core" rather vaguely, e.g. by saying that:

"The framework is designed so that vocabularies can be layered on top of a
core. The RDF core and RDF vocabulary definition (RDF schema) languages
[RDF-VOCABULARY] are the first such vocabularies."

... so RDF core is a vocabulary build on top of a core?

Perhaps the intended meaning of the concept "RDF core" (the WG, the
fundamental set of RDF specs, or something else?) should be spelled out
better since the term "RDF core" will be probably widely used in the
discussions about RDF hereafter?

#2.) In document Resource Description Framework (RDF):
Concepts and Abstract Syntax
(http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-rdf-concepts-20030123/), the subsection 3.5.
"Representation of Simple Facts" provides an example of encoding a
database row as a set of RDF statements.

The example is nice but perhaps a bit misleading since databases come with
the basic assumption of unambiguous data. If I'm not mistaken, the
semantics of the RDF core specifications (RDF Schemas in particular) do
not provide a validation mechanism preventing the occurrence of multiple
values for the cells when the database is modelled as in the example. For
instance, someone might simply write two sentences

_:x http://.../city "Bedform"
_:x http://.../city "Berlin"

which effectively would brake the idea of a database. (For predicates this
of course is no problem since they are effectively relations.)

#3.) In document Resource Description Framework (RDF):
Concepts and Abstract Syntax
(http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-rdf-concepts-20030123/), the subsection 4.4.
"Interaction Between Social and Formal Meaning"
(http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/WD-rdf-concepts-20030123/#section-Interaction)
reads:

"The meaning of an RDF document includes the social meaning, the formal
meaning, and the social meaning of the formal entailments. The assertion
of an RDF graph G, when G logically entails G', includes the implicit
assertion of G'. The implied assertion of G' should be interpreted using
the same social conventions that are reasonably used to interpret the
assertion of G."

This sounds like a rather strong normative characterisation (perhaps too
strong).

First, even if I believed that (human or artificial) agents would mutually
agree a mechanism for making global vocabulary entailments, I don't think
that agents in general are capable (or willing!) of stating only RDF
sentences whose entailments they fully agree (or can come feasibly up with
and interpret). In addition, by introducing a vocabulary entailment
including negation, it's easy to end up with unintentional entailments
(effective anything). More reasonable would be saying that agents must
either agree on the demonstrated entailments, refine their assertions, or
choose a different interpretation theory altogether.

Second, in practical situations, there are typically several possibilities
for the selection of the RDF graph, only some of which an agent is either
capable or willing to consider. For instance, I might only have access to
graphs G1, G2, and G3, but willing only to accept the assertions in G1 and
G3. Thus if G1 asserts {A->B, E->C}, G3 asserts {C->D}, and even if G2
asserts {B->D}, I would accept only {A->B, E-C, C->D} but not {A->C}.
However, there might be a graph G4 (that I, e.g., don't know about) which
entails {B->E}, using assertions and inference mechanism that I would
accept.

From mathematical point of view, the result would be the same (accept G2
or not, by accepting G1, G3, and G4 one would entail A->C), but from the
metamathematical point of view, quite different (different proof)--I might
argue the same thing as the next guy but with different arguments. In the
social context this is extremely important (consider, e.g., the system of
law). Thus the entailment path itself should be on focus as well as the
result.

A trivial example to emphasise this point:
G1: {A->C}
G2: {A->B, B->C}
Socially accepting G1 alone might be harder that its "proof", G2 (which
logically does entail G1). (Consider: "JohnSmith is a clown" versus
"JohnSmith acts foolishly" and "foolishly acting people are clowns" thus
"JohnSmith is a clown".)

Perhaps RDF should introduce new concepts, for denoting the particular
graph an agent is using (capable and willing) while doing deductions and
interpretations, and the notion of a proof (i.e., some assertions are
"more valuable" than others since there is a widely accepted proof for
them)?

[...]

History

2003-01-31: Raised

See: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0166.html

  1. (1) Suggests a more precise indication of the scope of "RDF core". [Section 1?]
  2. (2) Database example doesn't account of normal database assumption of unambiguous data. [Section 3.5]
  3. (3) Characterization of "social entailment" is too strong. The concern appears to be that agents might somehow be expected to be aware of entailments that are opaque to formal reasoning processes.
I think these are all issues that can be addressed editorially, since I don't think the concerns raised are at odds with the group's intent:
  1. I am happy to include a few words that clarify the scope of RDF core, assuming the WG agree what it is ;-)
  2. I think the database assumption of unambiguity is only a problem if we claim to represent *any* RDF in database form; I don't see any problem there. Can you cite an example of how this ambiguity might be a problem; e.g. some RDF (used as an assertion) that could not be represented in a relational database? I'm happy to clarify this point, but am unsure what particu;ar concern needs to be addressed here.
  3. I agree the issue of social meaning is poorly handled, and needs to be improved. I think the main point we need to convey here is that there may be social meaning associated with some RDF that is opaque to automated reasoning processes. The secondary point is that such meaning may be embodied in some collection of RDF statements, and those statements may be obtained by application of a logically valid reasoning process. The suggestion of non-opacity of social meaning seems to be the issue at the heart of your concerns about it, and I'll try to clarify this.